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What do engineers do?

Postby spacefem » Thu Nov 23, 13:17

A newspaper article I came across this week made the claim that the reason so few middle/high school students want to go into engineering is because they're really not sure what engineers do. I have to admit that the article might be right. Hell, I was in college for engineering, and still had no idea what engineers were doing. It was only after I became one that it sort of started coming together.

So that's why I'm writing this nice article about what I, an engineer, do. Obviously I'm not every engineer. There are probably hundreds of different engineering degrees you can get, and each of those has another hundred job options you can use it for. My degree is in electronics engineering technology and I do avionics systems integration for small business jets... but that's irrelevant to this article! I work in a cubicle but there are engineers who work outside, I don't travel but there are engineers who travel all the time. But at least getting my story out there will give you an idea of what one engineer does, which is better than nothing.
<hr>
So I'm going to try to avoid talking about airplanes too much. I have a sneaking suspicion that the aircraft industry is just like all the other ones, with a little more certification work. So here goes:

<b>Ten things that an engineer does in an eight hour day</b>

2 hours - make block diagrams
It doesn't matter if we're doing actual engineering or describing things we've already engineered, seriously, we make a lot of block diagrams. The wire diagrams I do are basically just block diagrams. I get a nice manual about a new box we're installing, and it tells me things like, "Pin 22 should be connected to an input telling us the airplane is in the air" and I figure out how to present that in a nice way on a drawing. It doesn't take a rocket scientist, but it does take someone with some spacial orientation concepts to lay it out nicely (because that one box probably has 60 wires, and ten go to the AHRS unit, and 6 go to the display, and one goes to power, etc.). Sure, I have to know little things... like, use thicker wire for high power, and use sheilded wire with audio so it doesn't sound bad, but again, not rocket science. I do love it though. It's fun for me to think about how systems can be laid out on paper, it's fun on engineering drawings, it's fun on reports, you name it... as far back as I can remember I've loved making block diagrams, the more complicated the better. It's like a logic puzzle that only gets bigger as you add more stuff.

2 hours - write reports
After we do little wire diagrams, we use MS word or Visio to do bigger, clearer, system diagrams to put in reports, and then we write about our systems. We list industry standards and government requirements and describe how our system complies. We write about tests we ran, with charts and graphs showing data that happened when one of those blocks on our diagram was a measurement or recording instrument. We write nice help guides for marketing to sell stuff. A lot of engineers don't like to write because it's not "engineering", but when it comes down to it if you're the one who understands a system better than anybody else, you're the one who should tell other people about it, am I right? That's why I don't really mind all the reports. That, and they involve a lot of block diagrams.

1.5 hour - answer the phone calls and e-mail
I write books and novels of e-mail all day, I swear, and when that's not happening I'm answering the phone because something broke and a person on the factory floor has a question about fixing it. Or wants me to fix it. There are also other groups and engineers that I talk to on a regular basis... not all of them are electrical engineers doing wires, we have aerospace engineers who need electrical support for flight controls, and propulsion engineers who need us to display stuff going on with their engines. I barely know what an engine does but it doesn't matter, whenever I need to know anything I just e-mail one of the propulsion types and it's all good.

1.5 hours - go to meetings
Meetings are there to keep the phone calls and e-mails from getting out of hand. Sometimes they work. Sometimes they're annoying. But the longer you're an engineer, the more time you'll spend in meetings. I think the senior management guys who've been around 30 years probably do nothing but go to meetings, mostly to shield me from them so I can get some actual work done. And like anything else, if you become an engineer and learn that you LOVE meetings there are paths you can take to get you into more of them, but that hasn't sounded good to me yet.

1 hour - fix things that need fixed
If you can't tell someone else how to do something, you have to do it yourself, that's just the way things work. Fixing stuff requires in depth understanding of the system and knowing how to interpret data... it's sort of an art, but you'll learn how to do it. It always gets better as you age.

1 hour - run tests
Any time you make a system you have to prove that it actually works, so we run tests. Sometimes it involves sitting in an airplane pushing buttons. Other times it involves putting a box in an oven, or a vibration chamber, or a big microwave. Either way it involves me setting up a test, working with test people who do this sort of thing full time.

0.5 hours - go to school
I've gone back to school part time to get a master's degree, so I spend more time in school than most engineers, but it's hard to be an engineer without spending some time in training classes and stuff. Really, anybody with the determination to make it through college can't hate school, otherwise they wouldn't have made it in the first place, so there aren't many jobs you can get with a college degree that let you quit learning. My company has training classes, too, for things people need to know about airplanes, and there are training classes vendors put on so we understand what they're selling us. Those classes usually have free snacks and sodas provided, by the way.

0.5 hours - track things in databases
Databases are basically just block diagrams with really big blocks, but I put them as their own category because they're, well, bigger. We have databases to keep track of drawing numbers, parts lists, reports, projects, wires, issues, you name it. So I spend a lot of time creating databases or maintaining our databases or entering data into somebody else's databases (in that big box that says, "engineering response").

0.5 hours - meet with vendors
This is like a meeting, but we invite people from the outside.

0.25 hours - think about how messy my desk is
There's a company policy about keeping your desk clean. I don't know who made this policy, but he/she was not an engineer. Anyway sometimes I clean my desk. Once a month is my goal on that one... every 12 weeks is more realistic.

0.5 hours - eat donuts
Or other non-productive activities... if you're talking to other engineers while drinking coffee and eating donuts, we call that "living the dream"! Engineering is a friendly occupation. We're not petty, there's low drama, we like to geek out with everybody, and we bring in donuts for the office. I hang out with engineers on the weekends, and we watch Hackers and talk about Star Trek. And drink.

So that's about what engineers do! And if you can't tell, I like my job and think that other people should be engineers because the more candidates we have to chose from, the smarter we'll be in general. Yes, it's sometimes tough. Yes, you have to take some extra math classes, and the engineering classes themselves aren't easy, you have to want it. And once you start work, there are times when you'll end up staying late or coming in on a Saturday. But it's always been fun enough to keep me wanting it so I'd say it's worth it. If you're thinking about being an engineer and have some hang-ups, ask me questions and I'll clear it up. It's great way to go and even though I had no idea what I'd be doing when I started this journey, I've never regretted it.
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Postby DruidX » Thu Nov 23, 15:49

That was quite informative. When I woked at Honewell [then Zellweger] Analytics, I was actually an Assembly Operator [I made stuff], but occasionally we got visits from the engineers. All I could see that they did was go to a lot of meetings, drink a lot of coffee and get bitched at by us little workers on the assembly lines because something was fracked up and we couldn't fix it. When Zellweger got taken over by Honewell near the end of my job there they decided to change how we worked and I got to see a little bit of how the engineers went about deciding to change things and go to meetings and drink lots of free coffee and stuff. I quite enjoyed the expirience.
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Postby darkliquid » Fri Nov 24, 1:54

I'm a software engineer and work writing web applications.

Its pretty 50% coding, 40% server admin, 5% meetings with clients, 5% talking directly with clients over then phone to fix/change things.
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Postby sarcasm » Fri Nov 24, 13:50

darkliquid wrote:I'm a software engineer and work writing web applications.

Its pretty 50% coding, 40% server admin, 5% meetings with clients, 5% talking directly with clients over then phone to fix/change things.


I think you should write more about that, I'm interested.

Actually, I think everyone here with a cool job should write about it so that I can read and be informed, 'cause I'm confused out of my mind about what I want to do with my life.
And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
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Postby monk » Fri Nov 24, 16:09

DruidX wrote:That was quite informative. When I woked at Honewell [then Zellweger] Analytics, I was actually an Assembly Operator [I made stuff], but occasionally we got visits from the engineers. All I could see that they did was go to a lot of meetings, drink a lot of coffee and get bitched at by us little workers on the assembly lines because something was fracked up and we couldn't fix it.


i had the exact same experience with engineers when i worked at a medical manufacturing company in california( a subsidiary of Eli Lilly). Except all the engineers did is come in and sign off on what us petty little assembers fixed while waiting for them to show up. And then another engineer would come in and shut us down because he or she disagreed with the fix from engineer number one and then we would all sit around waiting for someone to say go to work and fill out paperwork to comply with FDA regulations of which i know for a fact the engineers had five times as much to deal with.

i am glad that spacefem loves her job but it sounds like a dream land compared to any corporate environment i have ever worked in. I think we shoull all apply to work for her company.

And what is the name of this company by the way?
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Postby DruidX » Fri Nov 24, 17:44

Sarcasm wrote:everyone here with a cool job should write about it so that I can read and be informed
What classes as a 'cool job'? I'm currently a school crossing patrol... person. I'm a lollypop lady. I say currently, because I've had a few quite low- responsibility jobs, but I've looked into a lot of others.
the monkmeister wrote:And what is the name of this company by the way?
Hah! Somehow I doubt she wants the whole of spacefem.com to come and work with her. Though, that could be interesting, in the most fracked up way possible...
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Postby Le_Pingouin » Fri Nov 24, 18:05

DruidX wrote:
Sarcasm wrote:everyone here with a cool job should write about it so that I can read and be informed
What classes as a 'cool job'? I'm currently a school crossing patrol... person. I'm a lollypop lady. I say currently, because I've had a few quite low- responsibility jobs, but I've looked into a lot of others.
the monkmeister wrote:And what is the name of this company by the way?
Hah! Somehow I doubt she wants the whole of spacefem.com to come and work with her. Though, that could be interesting, in the most fracked up way possible...


I think almost any job could be considered cool- it just depends on what kind of person you are. I think it'd be a really frigging awesome idea for a sticky thread, but not in here, because I'd like to see jobs outside the technology field as well. Random Weirdos maybe?

I doubt we could all go work with her even if we wanted to- it takes a unique education to become an engineer.
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Postby spacefem » Sat Nov 25, 0:03

I'd defintely like to hear about more cool jobs! darkliquid posted, so there's two we've got :) if your job fits into science, post here, if it fits into politics, post there. maybe someone has a "creativity" career. hell, even if you're not old enough to have a "career", feel free to just write about your job, we've had stuff like that before. Somebody a million years ago who worked in fast food wrote us an article about it, and to this day whenever I throw out all the stuff on my tray I always make sure to throw away the paper thing that's under everything else, thanks to whoever that was.

I do like the idea of these things being articles, so take your time, and it's okay to set on it for a while so we don't have 100 "what I do at work" articles on the main page. or not, whatever. sometimes we go a month between articles on the main page, other times we'll have five in a week, we're never even, what's wrong with us?

anyway, I won't say the name of the company where I work, for internet security type reasons, but there are half a dozen places that make airplanes and they're probably all strikingly similar. the aircraft industry is cool because so many people who work in it really love airplanes... I have to work around passionate people who aren't counting down the days until the weekend otherwise I'd go nuts. But there are a lot of places to work where people are enthusiastic, you just have to decide that that's what you value and go after it. I could really write a whole article about job searching and finding your place... maybe next month, huh.
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Postby lizpoona » Fri Dec 1, 16:27

if you haven't convinced me to become an engineer, you've atleast reminded me to start thinking about my future career.


thanks!
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Postby Dragonrider » Fri Dec 1, 17:16

I'm an engineer too!

Because I'm a software engineer, I basically spend 70% of my time trying to understand code, 20% of my time modifying existing code, and 10% of my time actually writing new code. That's when I'm doing programming related work. I also go to meetings and eat pizza, and geek around just like spacefem's colleagues.
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Postby SakuraSong » Fri Dec 1, 22:27

Actually, the school I go to is mostly based on maths, science, and engineering (our school mascots and cheerleaders are named the engineers/enginettes. Not very threatening but there's a reason why we never won two consecutive football games.)

Me and my friend lookie wanted at least an engineering degree, because a lot of jobs smile down on people with that. Lookie even had female engineers come in the school and explain what they do for a living, which was pretty damn hot from what she told me.


I wanted to be a mechanical engineer because I loved to fix machines (like bikes), but right now, none of us are sure what we should do. Or more importantly, what kind of engineering we should immerse ourselves into. Her major's Civil Engineering, and they have lots of fun with it. Even though I dont know what Civil Engineering REALLY is.
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Postby monk » Sat Dec 2, 0:05

SakuraSong wrote: Her major's Civil Engineering, and they have lots of fun with it. Even though I dont know what Civil Engineering REALLY is.


from what i understand civil engineers deal with stuff being built in the landscape..ie roads, dams, bridges, some kinds of buildings. crap like that..the few that i know are either like surveyor type people or they work for a city planning department...good times if you like spending time outdoors. especially the surveyors. :)
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Postby darkliquid » Sat Dec 2, 2:34

Dragonrider wrote:I'm an engineer too!

Because I'm a software engineer, I basically spend 70% of my time trying to understand code, 20% of my time modifying existing code, and 10% of my time actually writing new code. That's when I'm doing programming related work. I also go to meetings and eat pizza, and geek around just like spacefem's colleagues.


Hehe, pizza, coding and geeking out were made for each other.

I've pulled a 0900-0300 shift before for a total of 9.5 hours overtime on many occasions, do other coders sometimes get caught up in a coding frenzy and just don't want to let it go?
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Postby monk » Sat Dec 2, 10:53

darkliquid wrote:I've pulled a 0900-0300 shift before for a total of 9.5 hours overtime on many occasions


my question is how are you compensated for the overtime. the only time i ever pulled double or triple shifts was when i was a supervisor and i couldn't leave because those under me didn't show up for their scheduled shift and i had to cover it. And i was on salary so there was no extra pay. Of course for the next three days i did my supervising by cell phone from my living room and no one said crap. how do coders get paid? by the line, hour, job?
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Postby spacefem » Sun Dec 3, 1:07

from what I understand, most coders/engineers/etc are salaried, which means you get told to get a job done by whatever date, and you do what it takes to get it done.

my industry is weird because there are a lot of aircraft companies in wichita, and they're pretty competitive about engineers, so I actually get overtime, sort of. I have to get approved for it, and there has to be a good reason for it, and I don't get time and a half, just normal time, but it is nice. Yes, there've been times when I worked more than 40 hours and wasn't approved for OT and didn't mess with it, but in the early stages of our experimental program when we were trying to get the damn airplane to fly I was working 60 hours a week pretty regularly, and my paychecks were 50% higher :)

If you're a new kid out of college, it's very important that you ask the company what kind of hours they expect you to work. There are companies I've heard of where 100 hour weeks is a totally normal thing, and nobody gets OT, and they basically recruit college kids in masses, burn them out and recruit some more. You have to watch out for that sort of thing no matter what industry you're in. I mean seriously... if you're working 100 hours a week, and making $50,000, it basically works out to what you could make at McDonald's if you look at what you're getting per hour.
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Postby darkliquid » Sun Dec 3, 5:28

Well, the as long as the boss says its ok to work the overtime, I can. Since we are a small company I'm often working directly with the boss since he is the other coder. So usually its both of us working till the wee hours.

I get an extra 50% per hour for overtime, but I'm on pretty low pay anyway, so it tends to get eaten away by taxes.
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Postby monk » Sun Dec 3, 12:17

darkliquid wrote:I get an extra 50% per hour for overtime, but I'm on pretty low pay anyway, so it tends to get eaten away by taxes.


i know that it is "bad form" to ask someone their salary, but low pay is such a relative term. can you be more specific? i worked as an ice cream man over the summer and the pay was for shit (from $70-$120 daily in cash) but i had so much fun that the money didnt matter so much. I know you enjoy your job (and that awesome and totally worth a pay cut)i just wonder if you could make more doing what you do for someone else in an enviroment that isnt quite so cozy.



Edited by dru [2103, 03 Dec 2006] made the quote work.
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Postby darkliquid » Sun Dec 3, 14:17

I'm on about £15k/year, not sure what that boils down to hourly, but for the average pay in the UK for the coding aspect of the job I do is around £32k/year I also admin our linux systems, which in the UK pay on average £37k/year.

So ideally I'd be earning £59k/year but oh well, can't have everything right? Unfortunately, the only jobs coding in RoR are mostly in London, which sucks because I hate that place and also the 2 hour commute (though a fair few employers are ok with *some* telecommuting). But I like where I am now, and if I left now the company would just fold up and die, well, I exaggerate, but it would be really, really hard on them and I like them and the company too much to do that to them even if I wanted to leave (curse you loyalty!). I'll just take what I can get, building up my experience and hopefully helping to turn our company into a goldmine so we can all retire with flashy houses and fast cars :P
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